Curse

Esrever · Sep 23, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Since Blackout is a skill and should be affected by expertise, a Ranger with 14 expertise and 12 domination should be able to keep a constant Blackout on a target with no lost energy. My question is: Would it be worth it to run a character like this? The Ranger running this build has no use besides Blackout, making him useless in all other situations. However, the idea of keeping any character completely shut-down might be worth it.

John Waffletord · Sep 23, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Its a trade off i guess.. you dont have to constantly blackout though.. you could blackout, cast backfire when your skills recharge, after they cast again blackout again. Then if you can't seem to keep them blacked out use cry of frustration to interupt them. I've been doing some blackout/backfire/cry of frustration in PvE mainly vs monk bosses and stuff. Constantly using blackout (its a touch skill btw), will make you very vunerable to enimies (no defense/self healing) and you'd have to stay very close to the enemy all the time. If you get pinned down, snared, etc, you're essentially useless. Another thing is, when you blackout a monk or ele or whatever, the entire time hes blacked out he is gaining energy(6 seconds @ 4 pips=12 eng), so when his skills come back he will be casting right away and a lot.. so you might want to enery drain or something too. The most it can do is 6 seconds (w/ domination @ 12) and recharge time is 10. Oath shot might help but you wont be able to energy drain & energy tap takes too long. Maybe you should do it like this..

Blackout, then as soon as you recharge, backfire, as soon as backfire does the damage, blackout again, then blackout, as soon as you recharge, energy drain

Energy Drain however is inspiration magic. But it might be worth more energy than expertise since expertise will only drop 1 skill (if it even does).

You're best bet would be to be a Mesmer Primary. Fast Casting ftw

White Designs · Sep 23, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Well, what's the point of a ranger if he needs to keep running around and using touch skills?

mr_boo · Sep 23, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

IIRC, even at Max Domination, Blackout last for only 7 secs, and with a 10 second recharge time, you won't be able to have your constant Blackout state...but that's all moot assuming you're a R/Me and you'll get 6 secs tops.

John makes a good case in point that while the Monk is blacked out, if you don't kill him, he'll regen a good amount of energy and be able to use it within that window of non Blackout.

In the end though, you might get this to work pretty well if you're not too worried about damage and you have a good team to try this out with. You can always go into a state of TF with your Prep before you Blackout...and I would bring some interrupt skills like Distract and Savage Shot to use within that non-Blackout window. The problem is staying within touch range of your target...I'm not saying I totally like the idea, but I won't necessarily shoot it down before trying it.

BTW: Are you sure Expertise affects Blackout? Have you tested this?

mortalis doleo · Sep 23, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

expertise only effects ranger skills, so this build has no real use... better off as a warrior, so you can damage the monk as well...

im not trying to flame, im just saying that the ranger part only hurts the build.

edit: AND! expertise lowers energy costs, NOT recharge time...

mr_boo · Sep 23, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

expertise only effects ranger skills, so this build has no real use... better off as a warrior, so you can damage the monk as well...

im not trying to flame, im just saying that the ranger part only hurts the build.

Not true, it's been tested and proven that Expertise affects Warrior skills as well.

Edit: The OP's claim was in the context of Energy.

Esrever · Sep 23, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Haven't been able to test if Expertise effects Blackout yet, but since it effects all Skills, it should work.

I forgot about the recharge on the skill. It might be feasible if I used Echo and Serpent's Quickness.

I chose Ranger because of it's speed buffs and snares, and for the fact it should be able to run Blackout fairly cheaply.

mr_boo · Sep 23, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esrever

Haven't been able to test if Expertise effects Blackout yet, but since it effects all Skills, it should work.

I forgot about the recharge on the skill. It might be feasible if I used Echo and Serpent's Quickness.

I chose Ranger because of it's speed buffs and snares, and for the fact it should be able to run Blackout fairly cheaply.

I stand corrected...I looked things up, and according to the source I looked up (I'm away from the game right now), Blackout should be affected by both SQ and Expertise. If you test it out soon, Esrever, please confirm and let us know.

rii · Sep 23, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Well, it does affect blackout for a start. Whatsmore, as a ranger, you get serpents quickness, which reduces the cooldown to 6/7s. Which conveniently lowers the cooldown to the duration (duration is actually 6 at 12). However, you cant run serpents constantly, but you can if youve got oath shot. So, give this a go:

Oath Shot [e]
Blackout
Serpents Quickness
[whatever you want... itll be disabled]
Res Sig

It works quite well. Of course, a lame tactic is get three of these guys, two warriors, and three monks. Then (hoping they have three monk set up), simply blackout their three monks and let the warriors rip them up. With no defense, theyll die to the slightest poke. Slap some cripple on them to make the touching even easier.

Bad_Monkey6186 · Sep 23, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

How is it lame if it works?

rii · Sep 23, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

dunno, its just.....so.... lame.
I could use it, but it takes the fun out of whipping people in normal ways, as opposed to simply disabling them. I suppose im saying blackout could be considered overpowered in that manner, but ftw i suppose.

Phades · Sep 23, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Merely the ranger ability to make it sustainable both in cost and refresh times, which almost begs as to why you would run a mesmer using the skill. There is a very similar comparison currently with interupts as well, even with energy drain there is a very close parity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Oath Shot [e]
Blackout
Serpents Quickness
[whatever you want... itll be disabled]
Res Sig

Rest of the build would probably include apply poison and maybe some traps or a run speed boost.

Silent Wandarer · Sep 24, 2005, 07:55 AM // 07:55

why run a ranger thats just stupid. Mesmer black out = 5 seconds with energy drain u have enuff energy to keep using blackut the whole time and blackut will last longer with 16 dom

rii · Sep 24, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

it will last longer but it still wont last the recharge. Rangers can.

smurfhunter · Sep 24, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

whats wrong with ranger using blackout is that rangers are well ranged. they use bows. blackout means you have to get close enough to touch someone. on my mesmer i take blackout, but i use it only if im at 10 energy and my energy management skills are recharging, kinda of gives you something to do while you sit and wait.

actually the reason w/me are pretty good with blackout is because they are always that close to their targets. you may want to use more interupts to make up for having no blackout tho. just an idea ^^

Schorny · Sep 24, 2005, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

whats wrong with ranger using blackout is that rangers are well ranged. they use bows.

Mhm... Wouldn't it be great if a ranger can take a sword or something? That will work

Quote:

blackout means you have to get close enough to touch someone. on my mesmer i take blackout, but i use it only if im at 10 energy and my energy management skills are recharging, kinda of gives you something to do while you sit and wait.

Please read the thread again. It is about 100% blackout on someone. A Mesmer can't do it. You need to be R/Me for it. And that is what this thread is about.

Quote:

actually the reason w/me are pretty good with blackout is because they are always that close to their targets.

Hopefully only a hammer war using blackout after his knockdown chain. Anything else is a waste of adrenaline.

Please read the thread before answering

cookiehoarder · Sep 25, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

8 domination on a r/me is good for blackout.

smurfhunter · Sep 25, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Mhm... Wouldn't it be great if a ranger can take a sword or something? That will work

Please read the thread again. It is about 100% blackout on someone. A Mesmer can't do it. You need to be R/Me for it. And that is what this thread is about.

Hopefully only a hammer war using blackout after his knockdown chain. Anything else is a waste of adrenaline.

Please read the thread before answering

no actually im rather sure a mesmer can run 100% blackout for a substantial amount of time. as to why you would want to do that is another topic. and dont generalize about the hammer... there are plenty of other times to use blackout.

i remember we would have our mesmer blackout the hero instead of distracting him... works well but the altar is always a really tough place to sit in especially if youre squishy...

Schorny · Sep 25, 2005, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

no actually im rather sure a mesmer can run 100% blackout for a substantial amount of time.

Mhm... 7 sec blackout, 10 sec recharge... I can't figure out how that can work...

Oh, you can use Mantra of Recovery, but only for the first 3 or maybe 4 blackouts, after that you can't chain blackout.

Quote:

as to why you would want to do that is another topic.

Sure. That is a totally different story.

Quote:

and dont generalize about the hammer... there are plenty of other times to use blackout.

If you run blackout on a warrior you serioulsy reeduce your damage output. So why run warrior in the first place? But there are always some special situation/builds

Quote:

i remember we would have our mesmer blackout the hero instead of distracting him...

Why blackout for 10 energy? You can interrupt much cheaper...

Quote:

works well but the altar is always a really tough place to sit in especially if youre squishy...

Why does it work so good? The hero can't cap in the next 7 secs... Mhm... Doesn't sound that important...

Considering you can dish out a hell lot of damage in that 7 secs and maybe start a knockdown chain?

Maybe you use blackout because it can't be evaded like most other interrupts. But an ele using gale migth be the better choice.

Phades · Sep 25, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

But an ele using gale migth be the better choice.

The problem with chain using gale is the 10e burnout to exhaustion making it a very short term fix to things, if an interupt is what you are after.